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	<title>Comments on: Jailbreaking.  It&#8217;s not as illegal as it sounds.</title>
	<atom:link href="http://benandjacq.com/2010/06/jailbreaking-its-not-as-illegal-as-it-sounds/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://benandjacq.com/2010/06/jailbreaking-its-not-as-illegal-as-it-sounds/</link>
	<description>Ben and Jacqueline Meredith</description>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://benandjacq.com/2010/06/jailbreaking-its-not-as-illegal-as-it-sounds/comment-page-1/#comment-351</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jul 2010 18:03:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benandjacq.com/?p=347010378#comment-351</guid>
		<description>Joo, I appreciate stalking by Asian guys more than any other type of stalking.  So no worries.

I do find it interesting that it is now definitely legal to jailbreak, but as our discussion earlier pointed out, it is still questionable in light of the EULA from an ethical standpoint.  

Plus, since I wrote this post, I have unjailbroken because my phone was so painfully slow it was unbearable.  It&#039;s still too slow, but at least now I have a prayer of it working.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joo, I appreciate stalking by Asian guys more than any other type of stalking.  So no worries.</p>
<p>I do find it interesting that it is now definitely legal to jailbreak, but as our discussion earlier pointed out, it is still questionable in light of the EULA from an ethical standpoint.  </p>
<p>Plus, since I wrote this post, I have unjailbroken because my phone was so painfully slow it was unbearable.  It&#8217;s still too slow, but at least now I have a prayer of it working.</p>
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		<title>By: Joo</title>
		<link>http://benandjacq.com/2010/06/jailbreaking-its-not-as-illegal-as-it-sounds/comment-page-1/#comment-347</link>
		<dc:creator>Joo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jul 2010 21:57:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benandjacq.com/?p=347010378#comment-347</guid>
		<description>A complete conversation changer:  http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-20011661-38.html?tag=cnetRiver

Jailbreaking is legal as of today.  Yes Ben, I&#039;m stalking you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A complete conversation changer:  <a href="http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-20011661-38.html?tag=cnetRiver" rel="nofollow">http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-20011661-38.html?tag=cnetRiver</a></p>
<p>Jailbreaking is legal as of today.  Yes Ben, I&#8217;m stalking you.</p>
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		<title>By: Jayson</title>
		<link>http://benandjacq.com/2010/06/jailbreaking-its-not-as-illegal-as-it-sounds/comment-page-1/#comment-299</link>
		<dc:creator>Jayson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jul 2010 18:55:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benandjacq.com/?p=347010378#comment-299</guid>
		<description>I feel like these donuts break the EULA of the donuts themselves, and like the iPhone jailbreaking that can only make them better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I feel like these donuts break the EULA of the donuts themselves, and like the iPhone jailbreaking that can only make them better.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob</title>
		<link>http://benandjacq.com/2010/06/jailbreaking-its-not-as-illegal-as-it-sounds/comment-page-1/#comment-286</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jun 2010 18:18:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benandjacq.com/?p=347010378#comment-286</guid>
		<description>Upon doing some more checking around, it may actually depend on when you bought your phone.  I read most recent EULA on the apple web site (the one I quoted  previously was from about a year ago) and the new language says 

&quot;You may not and agree not to, or enable other to, ... modify .... the iPhone Software&quot;

Apparently they found and closed the exact loophole you mention.  The fact they did so seems to lend some credibility to your argument.  So I guess you should look for your original documentation and see what it said.

I feel this is just semantics and I would never jailbreak an iPhone.  However, the evidence does suggest suggest to me that a reasonable person could choose to jailbreak an with a clean conscience provided that they have one old enough to be covered by the original language.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Upon doing some more checking around, it may actually depend on when you bought your phone.  I read most recent EULA on the apple web site (the one I quoted  previously was from about a year ago) and the new language says </p>
<p>&#8220;You may not and agree not to, or enable other to, &#8230; modify &#8230;. the iPhone Software&#8221;</p>
<p>Apparently they found and closed the exact loophole you mention.  The fact they did so seems to lend some credibility to your argument.  So I guess you should look for your original documentation and see what it said.</p>
<p>I feel this is just semantics and I would never jailbreak an iPhone.  However, the evidence does suggest suggest to me that a reasonable person could choose to jailbreak an with a clean conscience provided that they have one old enough to be covered by the original language.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://benandjacq.com/2010/06/jailbreaking-its-not-as-illegal-as-it-sounds/comment-page-1/#comment-284</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jun 2010 16:15:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benandjacq.com/?p=347010378#comment-284</guid>
		<description>Fascinating.  

If the language in the EULA were &quot;you agree not to _____&quot; instead of &quot;you may not _______&quot; I&#039;d have no wiggle room, morally.  

As it is, I never agreed not to jailbreak, I just made myself potentially--but not certainly, by virtue of the use of the word &quot;may&quot;--&quot;subject to prosecution and damages.&quot;

Am I right?  I never said I wouldn&#039;t jailbreak, by agreeing to the EULA.  

Is this semantics?  do I need to unjailbreak?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fascinating.  </p>
<p>If the language in the EULA were &#8220;you agree not to _____&#8221; instead of &#8220;you may not _______&#8221; I&#8217;d have no wiggle room, morally.  </p>
<p>As it is, I never agreed not to jailbreak, I just made myself potentially&#8211;but not certainly, by virtue of the use of the word &#8220;may&#8221;&#8211;&#8221;subject to prosecution and damages.&#8221;</p>
<p>Am I right?  I never said I wouldn&#8217;t jailbreak, by agreeing to the EULA.  </p>
<p>Is this semantics?  do I need to unjailbreak?</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob</title>
		<link>http://benandjacq.com/2010/06/jailbreaking-its-not-as-illegal-as-it-sounds/comment-page-1/#comment-283</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jun 2010 15:46:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benandjacq.com/?p=347010378#comment-283</guid>
		<description>I wasn&#039;t trying to be Anonymous, I just didn&#039;t see that my identity in any way effected my argument.

For me, the issue is that the EULA is a take it or leave it proposition.  It isn&#039;t a negotiation.  In the world of pure software, this simply means that if you don&#039;t like the agreement that comes with a piece of software you don&#039;t install it. 

Unfortunately in the Apple monoculture there is an incestuous bond between the software and hardware.  It is my understanding that this lets them couple the two together in a way makes it a violation of the agreement to use the phone and not their software.

The text of the EULA provides exactly one &quot;opt-out&quot; option.

&quot;If you do not agree to the terms of this license, do not use the iPhone or download this software update.  If you do not agree to the terms of the license, you may return the iPhone within the return period to the apple store or authorized distributor where you obtained it for a refund, subject to apple&#039;s return policy found at http://www.apple.com/legal/sales_policies.&quot;

This makes it clear to me that it was Apple&#039;s intention that no one would be allowed to use an iPhone that was not running Apple&#039;s own software.  I personally believe that while this practice is objectionable, it is both legal and their right as the manufacturer of the device.  

This is where you have the latitude to disagree.  I suppose you could make the argument that you own the phone and therefore you can choose to throw the EULA, their is some legal precedent to this view.  On the moral front I personally find that argument dubious. 

If you feel that you never agreed to the EULA at all and therefore circumvent it by destroying the software on the phone, you may have a case.  

At this point it comes down to a matter of conscience.  I do not like these restrictions Apple has created and therefore I do not use any Apple products.  Legally, I think you never have anything to fear from your jailbroken iPhone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wasn&#8217;t trying to be Anonymous, I just didn&#8217;t see that my identity in any way effected my argument.</p>
<p>For me, the issue is that the EULA is a take it or leave it proposition.  It isn&#8217;t a negotiation.  In the world of pure software, this simply means that if you don&#8217;t like the agreement that comes with a piece of software you don&#8217;t install it. </p>
<p>Unfortunately in the Apple monoculture there is an incestuous bond between the software and hardware.  It is my understanding that this lets them couple the two together in a way makes it a violation of the agreement to use the phone and not their software.</p>
<p>The text of the EULA provides exactly one &#8220;opt-out&#8221; option.</p>
<p>&#8220;If you do not agree to the terms of this license, do not use the iPhone or download this software update.  If you do not agree to the terms of the license, you may return the iPhone within the return period to the apple store or authorized distributor where you obtained it for a refund, subject to apple&#8217;s return policy found at <a href="http://www.apple.com/legal/sales_policies." rel="nofollow">http://www.apple.com/legal/sales_policies.</a>&#8221;</p>
<p>This makes it clear to me that it was Apple&#8217;s intention that no one would be allowed to use an iPhone that was not running Apple&#8217;s own software.  I personally believe that while this practice is objectionable, it is both legal and their right as the manufacturer of the device.  </p>
<p>This is where you have the latitude to disagree.  I suppose you could make the argument that you own the phone and therefore you can choose to throw the EULA, their is some legal precedent to this view.  On the moral front I personally find that argument dubious. </p>
<p>If you feel that you never agreed to the EULA at all and therefore circumvent it by destroying the software on the phone, you may have a case.  </p>
<p>At this point it comes down to a matter of conscience.  I do not like these restrictions Apple has created and therefore I do not use any Apple products.  Legally, I think you never have anything to fear from your jailbroken iPhone.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://benandjacq.com/2010/06/jailbreaking-its-not-as-illegal-as-it-sounds/comment-page-1/#comment-282</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jun 2010 14:56:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benandjacq.com/?p=347010378#comment-282</guid>
		<description>That. Is. Awesome.  How have I gone this long in life without missing these?  They complete me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That. Is. Awesome.  How have I gone this long in life without missing these?  They complete me.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://benandjacq.com/2010/06/jailbreaking-its-not-as-illegal-as-it-sounds/comment-page-1/#comment-281</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jun 2010 14:55:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benandjacq.com/?p=347010378#comment-281</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Anonymous, for the tip.  (and wow, I am important enough to have anonymous comments? Who knew? And I can still figure out who you are.  I&#039;m a geek with access to whois searches)

I&#039;m intrigued by the legalities here, because basically I am just opting out of an agreement with Apple (to fix my phone, provide me with support, etc) by jailbreaking.  

Now my question is, is it immoral to intentionally violate an agreement, and forfeit the benefits of that agreement? I&#039;m not going to hold Apple to their side of the agreement, because I opted out of the agreement.  I don&#039;t feel like that&#039;s immoral.

Again, I am not going to pirate apps or illegally tether or any of that... I&#039;m just into tinkering with the software in legal ways.  

This is turning into a really good discussion for me.  I hope it doesn&#039;t end in me learning that it is immoral and un-jailbreaking my phone.  But we&#039;ll have to see.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Anonymous, for the tip.  (and wow, I am important enough to have anonymous comments? Who knew? And I can still figure out who you are.  I&#8217;m a geek with access to whois searches)</p>
<p>I&#8217;m intrigued by the legalities here, because basically I am just opting out of an agreement with Apple (to fix my phone, provide me with support, etc) by jailbreaking.  </p>
<p>Now my question is, is it immoral to intentionally violate an agreement, and forfeit the benefits of that agreement? I&#8217;m not going to hold Apple to their side of the agreement, because I opted out of the agreement.  I don&#8217;t feel like that&#8217;s immoral.</p>
<p>Again, I am not going to pirate apps or illegally tether or any of that&#8230; I&#8217;m just into tinkering with the software in legal ways.  </p>
<p>This is turning into a really good discussion for me.  I hope it doesn&#8217;t end in me learning that it is immoral and un-jailbreaking my phone.  But we&#8217;ll have to see.</p>
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		<title>By: Zack (@zacharyb)</title>
		<link>http://benandjacq.com/2010/06/jailbreaking-its-not-as-illegal-as-it-sounds/comment-page-1/#comment-280</link>
		<dc:creator>Zack (@zacharyb)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jun 2010 14:23:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benandjacq.com/?p=347010378#comment-280</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t sweat it man. 

I give you cheerwine-infused krispy kremes:

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/06/29/1533688/cheerwine-infused-krispy-kremes.html

Suddenly, nothing else really matters...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t sweat it man. </p>
<p>I give you cheerwine-infused krispy kremes:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/06/29/1533688/cheerwine-infused-krispy-kremes.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/06/29/1533688/cheerwine-infused-krispy-kremes.html</a></p>
<p>Suddenly, nothing else really matters&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://benandjacq.com/2010/06/jailbreaking-its-not-as-illegal-as-it-sounds/comment-page-1/#comment-279</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jun 2010 14:20:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benandjacq.com/?p=347010378#comment-279</guid>
		<description>It sounds good to say that it is your phone, that you paid for it, and you should be be able to do whatever you want with it.  In fact that is true, you do own the physical device.  

You do not own the software that is loaded on the device, it is only licensed to you.   When you first use your phone you are agreeing to Apple&#039;s End User License Agreement (EULA) which expressly forbid modifying the software that is comes on your phone.  Despite arguments I found on the internet, common sense tells us that jailbreaking an iPhone is a modification of the software and as such is a violation.

You are correct in saying that it is not illegal.  A EULA is not law, merely and agreement between two private entities.  However, it is a violation of the word that you gave to Apple when you (implicitly or explicitly) accepted the EULA by using the phone.

For reference here is the relevant passage

&quot;2 (c) Except as and only to the extent permitted by applicable law, or by licensing terms governing use of open-sourced components included with the iPhone Software, you may not copy, decompile, reverse engineer, disassemble, attempt to derive the source code of, **modify**, or create derivative works of the iPhone Software, iPhone Software Updates, or any part thereof. Any attempt to do so is a violation of the rights of Apple and its licensors of the iPhone Software and iPhone Software Updates. If you breach this restriction, you may be subject to prosecution and damages.&quot;
- iPhone EULA (emphasis added)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It sounds good to say that it is your phone, that you paid for it, and you should be be able to do whatever you want with it.  In fact that is true, you do own the physical device.  </p>
<p>You do not own the software that is loaded on the device, it is only licensed to you.   When you first use your phone you are agreeing to Apple&#8217;s End User License Agreement (EULA) which expressly forbid modifying the software that is comes on your phone.  Despite arguments I found on the internet, common sense tells us that jailbreaking an iPhone is a modification of the software and as such is a violation.</p>
<p>You are correct in saying that it is not illegal.  A EULA is not law, merely and agreement between two private entities.  However, it is a violation of the word that you gave to Apple when you (implicitly or explicitly) accepted the EULA by using the phone.</p>
<p>For reference here is the relevant passage</p>
<p>&#8220;2 (c) Except as and only to the extent permitted by applicable law, or by licensing terms governing use of open-sourced components included with the iPhone Software, you may not copy, decompile, reverse engineer, disassemble, attempt to derive the source code of, **modify**, or create derivative works of the iPhone Software, iPhone Software Updates, or any part thereof. Any attempt to do so is a violation of the rights of Apple and its licensors of the iPhone Software and iPhone Software Updates. If you breach this restriction, you may be subject to prosecution and damages.&#8221;<br />
- iPhone EULA (emphasis added)</p>
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